Return to Zero
2-5 players | Reviewed by Paul - Tuesday 16 January 2001 @ 03:41
SleepwalkR's first exploration into Quake mapping keeps things simple. The layout is heavily interconnected meaning its very close action. I wasn't exactly sure where the textures were from but a quick question to Sleep confirmed that the brick textures are from the urban blood fest KingPin, the metal panelling and roof bars a mixture of the aforementioned and Quake 2 and the square item pads are custom made for this map. The theme works well, the worn unpainted brick work decorates the lower floor where as on the top deck its either all white brick or a combination of the two.
The very solid brushwork Sleepy used in his previous Quake 2 maps is obviously apparent and mixed with the gritty texturing gives the map a believable look, if that's possible with a Quake map :).
The weapon load is on the heavy side with 4 GL's, 2 LG's, 2 RL's and a 2 SNG's. There is plenty of ammo to back them up so you'll not be running around light. A foursome in FFA was pretty good, if you can cope with the constant action. 1-on-1 seems to suit better and there are few predominant spots in the map that can be controlled nicely to give you the upper hand.
One of the problems I found was that if you can only play the map with bots then you're not going to have much fun. There are a couple of deep sections of water, one of which leads to an opening into a small c
hamber containing the Quad, and the other contains a GL. I'm a little unsure as to why there is the deep water section around the GL, it doesn't serve any particular purpose, other than to perhaps cushion your fall if you drop down from above. Personally I would have done that area like where one of the LG's is, all the surrounding water as shallow pools. The section around the Quad is fair enough, since it's a sufficient deterrent for people and an easy way to slow down someone's escape when they do have it.
Skorpion provides a route with the map so their behaviour is somewhat improved so they don't just dive straight in for a swim. They do like going for the Quad and then got stuck, so you can nip in and drop some 'nades down for an easy frag.
4.0 out of 5.0
Download 481Kb | readme | Kristian Duske aka SleepwalkR | http://www.planetquake.com/rem/
# 1. nice ass ;) ^
by CardO - Tuesday 16 January 2001 @ 06:16
Sleepy, i've gotta say that this is one cool map, very simple yet effective use of drop downs into lower sections. One thing about the map however was that it made me feel a bit desolate, and made me wanna pee cause the textures and water were kinda dreary.. but i guess it's atmosphere, still a cool mapx0r3r :) well done Sleepy.
# 2. Paul, I gotta start questioning your ratings ^
by Aardappel - Tuesday 16 January 2001 @ 08:55
You give some quite mediocre maps a 3.5 or a 4, and this one as well? And based on what, omi performance? Trust me, I have played this map vs humans and it is the dogs bollocks... this is one intense quake map, no matter how you play it.
The rating system needs work, unless you wanna resort to giving maps a 3.7 or a 4.1 soon.
# 3. I agree ^
by SleepwalkR - Wednesday 17 January 2001 @ 04:09
Please don't get me wrong, I am not questioning the rating of my map. If you think it's a four, it's a four, or whatever else you think is the score it deserves. But I agree with Aard that Omibot performance should not be taken into consideration on a deathmatch map that is intended to be played against humans.
Btw, the weapon load is wrong, it's 2 GL's, 1 RL, 1 LG and 1 SNG.
But anyway, thanks for taking the time to review the map, well appreciated.
-SleepwalkR
# 4. Question them all you like ^
by Paul - Wednesday 17 January 2001 @ 04:17
It is after all just my opinion. If you like it then I'm glad you've posted a comment here so people can see a differing view on it.
I actually didn't think it was that "intense". And as for bot play, I think the majority of people play these maps with bots. If you're lucky enough to play it properly, then please comment.
The entire idea of mentioning bot play and then giving direct links to whatever routes Skorpion creates should give you an idea of what I'm doing.
I also don't think the rate system needs any work. It's perfectly fine as it is. I did think about that when redoing the site but decided the current set up works.
# 6. My mistake then ^
by Paul - Wednesday 17 January 2001 @ 06:57
I shouldn't have reviewed the map.
# 7. Bullshit, Paul ^
by SleepwalkR - Wednesday 17 January 2001 @ 07:42
I didn't say that - I said I'm ok with any score you think the map deserves. I'm not critizing the score itself, and everyone knows I hate ppl who get pissed when their map gets a bad review (and the rtz review was not bad). Please, again, don't get me wrong - I just think that it's a bit unfair to rate a map by how it plays with the bots. The fact that the omibot has troubles with water is a problem with the omibot and not with the map, so I think that is a bit unappropriate.
I mean, I am not going to tweak the map for bot play as long as I don't play against bots myself. I made this map so that I can have fun in it with my friends, and I am not going to alter the gameplay just to make it more bot friendly. Sorry to everyone who does not have the chance to play against humans, but IMO, Quake is not for bot play but for multiplay against humans.
So Paul, this was not meant as an offense to you. It is more a general statement on how I think a map should be scored. There's no reason to be pissed now.
-SleepwalkR
# 8. My point is... ^
by Paul - Wednesday 17 January 2001 @ 08:50
...that I shouldn't have reviewed the map because I couldn't properly play the map without bots. On the old MPQ I was actually able to play most maps on a lan with a few people. Unfortunately we don't do that that often anymore, at least not often enough as I'd like, for me to get reviews done by it.
So in order to do any review I have to use bots. Maybe someone knows of a bot that can swim? (Anyone say Frogbot and I shall kiiiill you)
I agree with you totally that Quake should be played against proper peeps and the only decent way (without an ISDN line) is on a LAN.
I'm obviously going to have to put some kind of disclaimer up mentioning its more than likely a map will be played with bots.
Also, I'm not bothered about a bot friendly version. You made that very clear on Qmap. You made the map for such and such conditions, where as it was obviously reviewed under the wrong ones.
# 9. Disclaimer... ^
by SleepwalkR - Wednesday 17 January 2001 @ 09:37
That might be a good idea. It's a real shame that you don't have the chance to play the map against human opponents anymore, cause as I said I think it's very difficult to comment on the gameplay of a map if you can't play it against humans.
Paul, since you said once that your company is paying the hosting of mpq, does that mean that you have the web server at your offices on a permanent connection? Cause if so, you could maybe set up a password-protected qw server to test the maps with a few mates. You could then have a meeting in irc after a few matches and discuss about the map. That would make for much more precise reviews IMO, but it would also require more work and coordination, which both is time consuming. Dunno if that's a solution, but I would at least volunteer for some matches and irc discussions afterwards.
-SleepwalkR
# 10. excellent. ^
by Rotpig - Wednesday 17 January 2001 @ 10:18
This map is a marvel to behold. I like how EVERY section has 3D'ness, if you know what I mean? Like, where ever you are, you are either on a ledge looking down or below, wary of death from above. Can't say enough about it! Again, I am green with envy... :)
# 11. MPQ Server ^
by Paul - Wednesday 17 January 2001 @ 01:34
does that mean that you have the web server at your offices on a permanent connection?
Unfortunately it isn't on a permanent connection. The server is also in the US, which means even if I could get Quake set up it won't be too good ping wise.
Its funny though, because when I went about sorting the hosting out they actually thought I wanted to run a Quake server, not a site about Quake :).
# 12. What the hell am I talking about. ^
by Paul - Wednesday 17 January 2001 @ 04:29
Yes its on a permanent connection otherwise you wouldn't be able to get to the site :). What I mean is I don't have the access or ability to run Quake without paying them more.
# 13. But if you had a server... ^
by SleepwalkR - Thursday 18 January 2001 @ 04:48
would you go for it?
# 15. Want a server? ^
by Jay - Thursday 18 January 2001 @ 03:59
I'll give you a shell account to a linux box on a US east coast OC3 .edu line. The server has a shit-ton of maps already on it, as well as the latest quakeforge server (but I would run the stock qwsv, because QF is a little unstable with some wacky 3rd party maps). I can upload map files that are too large for you to want to on your own, and am around a lot of the time if you need me, as the machine resides in my appartment.
In fact, since I already run 9 or so public servers, I could maintain this one for you if you'd rather not spend the time. Keeping the rotation updated wouldn't be a problem.
Check us out at www.qmass.net. If having your own server for this place interests you, drop me a line (my addy is above).
# 16. Depends on what the connection/ping is like... ^
by Paul - Friday 19 January 2001 @ 10:29
...since I'm in the UK. I'll have a look and email you.
# 17. I played on Jay's server once... ^
by Aardappel - Friday 19 January 2001 @ 02:25
And had about 250 ping on my modem that normally gives me 140-170 on good dutch & uk servers. So if you have a digital connect I wouldn't be surprised if you can play there at 100-120 ping (I remember being able to play on zzjohnzz's server at 120 ping from my uk uni connect).
International pings are getting lower and lower for some reason, the other day I was duelling in russia with a very stable 190 ping, which amazed me given the distance.
# 18. 2/3 aint bad ^
by Kayin - Saturday 20 January 2001 @ 09:59
nice layout
good gameplay
but it looks like donkey piss.
# 20. Donkey piss ^
by SleepwalkR - Sunday 21 January 2001 @ 09:44
Really =)
I find that rather interesting, cause I'd suppose that Donkey piss is yellow-ish, while rtz is more brown-grey-ish. So in my book it looks like Donkey-shit or something like that.
-SleepwalkR
# 21. Huh? shite? ^
by Rotpig - Sunday 21 January 2001 @ 07:26
Man, this map is something special, totally blows away most maps i've seen. The layout in this is FUCKING AMAZING. I can't agree that it looks like donkey piss, although I would say less time has been spent on visuals. These sorts of maps are unique. Damn fine indeed.
With any of my maps, I can usually get something to look good but thats all. I'm only just starting to really spend time on the layout and connections. This is where all the time goes to in most of my maps.
btw, would anyone be interested in helping me with beta-testing my maps? I have no way of testing maps with other humans (my internet connection is snail-pace at best and I only have access to a Lan every solar eclipse) Email me or leave posts here if you'd like to help.
Thanks.
# 22. I agree, and can help ^
by Jay - Sunday 21 January 2001 @ 11:10
I run www.qmass.net. I could gather a few guys together (3-8) and test your map. Most of the players would be on a LAN as well, which is by far the best way to test a level :)
Drop me a line @ mailto:[email protected]
# 23. Rotpig ^
by SleepwalkR - Monday 22 January 2001 @ 07:17
Thanks for that. Indeed, this was the first of my maps where more thought has gone into the layout and gameplay than into the looks and visuals, even though it started as a "design" study for good curve angles.
It is after all also due to headshot's remarks and feedback that the layout came out this well - he made me think about player movement and gameplay options.
-SleepwalkR
# 24. So how was it? ^
by Jay - Thursday 25 January 2001 @ 12:21
..saw paul and Daz's handles in this weeks stats for the FFA server @ qmass. How did it go?
# 25. I knew there was something I forgot to do. ^
by Paul - Thursday 25 January 2001 @ 03:36
And that was to email you and say thanks for the offer but it just wasn't playable for me.
Both me and Daz went on at the same time. He got a good ping of 220 to 300 where as mine was 270 to 999. It was mostly smooth but I got some really nasty spikes where I got the disconnect icon up, which made Daz laugh since I would just hang whilst jumping in mid air.
Funny thing is we're both on the same ISP but the results were very different :).
# 26. That's too bad.. ^
by Jay - Thursday 25 January 2001 @ 05:57
perhaps you'll try it again and have better luck - my university's network was touch-and-go last week. It's your call. Wish I could help..
# 27. *ahem* ^
by Kayin - Tuesday 13 February 2001 @ 12:39
** fap fap fap fap fap **
like i said, sexy map layout wise, you just have to close your eyes and imagine it a bit nicer looking (too brown shit quakeish, looks like it was chained to the back of an ox wagon and drug in sopping mud for miles down an amish road)
# 28. *ahem* ^
by Kayin - Tuesday 13 February 2001 @ 12:39
** fap fap fap fap fap **
like i said, sexy map layout wise, you just have to close your eyes and imagine it a bit nicer looking (too brown shit quakeish, looks like it was chained to the back of an ox wagon and drug in sopping mud for miles down an amish road)
# 30. It`s amazingly cool map ^
by Speedy - Thursday 22 March 2001 @ 12:13
(Didnt get around to play it b4..)
I`ts awesome, looks super stylee (texture set rocks!), great details, perfect scale, very real-looking lights, superb layout that lets you play 1-1 even with quad (wich is usually an overkill for duels).
Overall it`s classic that takes place among the all-best dm maps for any quake (I`d love to see this converted for q3 actually).
I dont care about poor bot play; hint: just play with 4 hi skill bots and it`ll be rather intence.
Thanks SleepwalkR
# 31. Speedy ^
by SleepwalkR - Sunday 08 April 2001 @ 10:21
Thanks for your nice words man =)
I'm really glad that you like the level, and as usual, I'd be pleased by some demos of you and your buds playing the level...
Thanks again
-SleepwalkR
